buying minivan

[valrub]

I'm looking to purchase a new/maybe used minivan that is 1-2 years old.
Toyota & Honda - very expensive for me, so I'm loking for GM/Dodge/Mazda/Kia. I never had minivan before, but family, kids, etc...
I'll be the primary driver and I'll drive about 500 km a week.
If anyone could provide me with their opinion on these models I'd appreciate it and if there are any problem area's with them that I should be looking for.

[amorak]

I would strongly suggest you check out the all-new Kia Sedona - Good unit.

[jww]

The new Hyundai Entourage is coming soon as well - worth a look.

However expensive they may be at the outset, a 2 year old Odessy or Sienna are very good choices in this space. I would steer away from Dodge if you are buying used and if buying new, would only consider leasing a Caravan for a maximum of 4 years.

jww

[valrub]

Thank you! I found Kia Sedona pretty nice, and there Sedona 2006. as well Somebody had some experience with Kia Sedona?

Thank you for any comments/ suggestions.

[jww]

Thank you! I found Kia Sedona pretty nice, and there Sedona 2006. as well Somebody had some experience with Kia Sedona?

Thank you for any comments/ suggestions.
My cousin and her husband have a 2004 Sedona and they like it alot. Decent mileage, lots of room, and good quality. The new version has better quality and fit-and-finish.

If my 2006 Sonata is any evidence, the Entourage will be very good quality when it comes out in terms of comfort, features, etc. It will also lead the class in safety kit, which if you are driving a family around, is very important.

jww

[apl16]

would the mazda 5 be large enough for you? great choice if its big enuf 4 u.

[jww]

would the mazda 5 be large enough for you? great choice if its big enuf 4 u.
The 5 is a good option that I forgot to include in my list of recommended vehicles. the only problem though is lack of power on the highway or when loaded down.

Another option you might want to consider is a cute-ute/soft-roader like the CR-V, X-Trail, etc. Loads of space, plenty of safety kit (on most) and nice to drive (at least the CR-V, X-Trail and Sportage/Tuscon are).

jww

[valrub]

hm-m-m probably I should look for those car as well, but my thought was that X-trail/CR-V it is mostly SUV, I don't now how comfortable will be long distance family drive?

[allen]

Xtrail and CRV are both SUV wanabees, they both have a decent ride

[jww]

hm-m-m probably I should look for those car as well, but my thought was that X-trail/CR-V it is mostly SUV, I don't now how comfortable will be long distance family drive?
These soft-roaders are not built for off-road, but rather are based on cars (CR-V is based on the Civic, and the X-Trail is based on Nissan's Almera which is sold in Euroope, the UK, and other geos). As such, they give very car-like rides, are extremly compliant and provide the higher positioned visibility of a mini-van.

If you don't need all the seats of a mini-van, they are an excellent option. Obviously, they aren't as good on gas because of the larger, heavier size. My cousin owns a CR-V and loves it - they have no children at home any longer, but still find plenty of use for a flexible cargo-carrier with comfortable seating.

The CR-V is slated for re-design for next year - in the meantime the new updates have placed it back at the top of the class - the RAV4 notwithstanding. Also the new Grand Vitara is well-equipped with more of a penchant for off-roading but still provides a car-like ride.

I wouldn't discount this option if I needed cargo carrying capability in my vehicle.

jww

jww

[woohoo!]

would the mazda 5 be large enough for you? great choice if its big enuf 4 u.

I agree with apl16. A Mazda 5 has decent space, is powerful and would be a good choice ;-)

[valrub]

OK, part of this weekend we spent doing reserch, visiting dealerships, and got some vechicles for test drive.

First, after some thinking we (unfortunatly) remove SUV (CR-V, X-trail, Sorento, etc) from our list, at least for now (maybe when kids will grow up I'll get my SUV).
I just read postings about Mazda 5 (Thank you for all of you) and we put it on our list - should be checked.

Second, we got few minivans on test drive: Chevy Uplander 2006 basic version, Dodge Caravan 2005 basic version, and Kia Sedona 2005 EX.

Not to describe each pros and cons I can say for now:
#1 Kia Sedona - very nice ride, features, 5 years full warranty :!: , etc..., we like it a lot, but (o boy :( ) )fuel consumption is terrible, poorest from all vans: city/hwy - 14.8/9.6

#2 Dodge Caravan - nice minivan, good drive.
#3 Chevy Uplander - we like it from outside and even inside, but after test drive we almost dropped it from the list.

The other story - salepersons :evil: . I'm not first time buyer, but I'm not frequent buer as well, so it is hard to adjust totheir game. As soon as they see little bit interest from us they become :twisted: .

For example, when I just visit Kia's dealership during the week and ask some questions about Sedona 2005, the sales person show me few vans, and said that the price for outgoing models is dropped (26K) and they ready to negotiate further, just to get rid of vans. Couple days after, the same person shows same cars with full price, plus delivery, pdi, admin fee, etc... with comments that there almost no room for negotiations, and don't want to calculate montly payment, unless we gclose deal.

The Dodge sales push me hard to sign right know deal, but at the end agree to print down financing options.

The vhevy dealers in contrast were very nice, they did everything what we ask, put financing/ leasing options with exactly monthly payment, and were ready to negotiate, gave us car for a test drive without sales person presnting in, and without any restrictions.

So, the first round over. We'll go to see and check Mazda 5 and MPV, Honda, Toyota.

I'd like to ask a few questions: what is invoice price is it MSRP? Is it dealers getting the newcars from manufactures below MSRP price? How far/how much I can get with negotiations below posted price on a car?

Any recommendations how to do good negotiations?

All your feedback is highly appriciated.

[jww]

Dealer Invoice cost is what the dealer pays the manufacturer for the vehicle. It does not include any factory/manufacturer to dealer incentives - and these will not show on the invoice the dealer shows you. Get yourself armed with invoice costs before you shop. I used www.cybercars.ca when we bought our 2006 Sonata in January and having that information was invaluable.

Isofar as vehicle choices go - we leased 2 Dodge Grand Caravans, but don't think I would buy one. They are good haulers, and reasonably comfortable, but we had trouble with brakes on both vehicles, replacing them way too often. We also had issues with the transmissions as well. As a result, I would not own another.

The GM vans are made to look like SUVs so they appeal to alot of people. They are low on the totem pole these days and as a result, dealers are willing to sell plenty of them. Personally, I don't like the way they drive, but have lots of friends who own them and are happy with them.

The Odessy and Sienna are the benchmark in this space for sure. Both are very well appointed, put together really well, and have great reliability - but are also expensive.

The Sedona is OK, but if you are looking to buy one - I would try to put off the decision until you can drive the new model as well as the new Entourage.

If you kick tires on the Mazda 5, you will be pleasantly surprised. It is an excellent package. It does, however, have some flaws like no armrests on some of the seats and an underpowered engine when loaded down or on the highway. However, if you aren't after a sports car, the 5 would be an excellent option. It is virtually impossible to beat the price, but you can't get it with stability control - that may or may not matter. Our Sonata has it, and I was impressed with it's performance in the 4 freezing rain storms we have had in Ottawa since we bought it.

It's good that you aren't rushing into this thing. Continue to take your time, research things to death, and drive plenty of demos.

For actual user experience, you can try yahoo autos, msn autos and edmunds.

jww.

[valrub]

Hi JWW,

Your comments are invaluable! :!:

Thank you!

[valrub]

I heard about manufactures discount/promotions, cashback, etc... but never find that information available. Is it any source (or central source) to find that information for Ontario? :?:

[valrub]

As far as I go with research as many questions arised, for example at one dealership I was shown financing interest rate (6.9%) with strong message that is final, it is not negotiable, it is not dealers many, and etc.
Is it possible to negotiate financing rate as well??

Thx

[jww]

As far as I go with research as many questions arised, for example at one dealership I was shown financing interest rate (6.9%) with strong message that is final, it is not negotiable, it is not dealers many, and etc.
Is it possible to negotiate financing rate as well??

Thx
I would only go with dealer financing if the rate was way better than my own bank. The best option, if you can, is to negotiate a line of credit and use that. Rates on LoCs are usually much better than on fixed loans.

However always go for first-things-first. Negotiate the car purchase separate from the financing. Don't try to do the entire deal in one step. Think of when you buy a house - you look around, put in an offer with conditions, and deal with each condition one at a time.

jww

[valrub]

Yesterday at night I did jump into the Mazda dealeship just to overview Mazda 5. I didn't get it for test drive due to late hour - almost 8:30 p.m. but I had chance to set inside and overview it. Hm-m, for 4 people for long drive - looks good, for in city driving + kids activities - no problem, but for some driving out such as camping, etc. I'm really not sure if it can be loaded with needed equipment. Although the interior - dark and I was told by sales person that only that combination available and nothing else, which surprised me pretty much.

[jww]

Yesterday at night I did jump into the Mazda dealeship just to overview Mazda 5. I didn't get it for test drive due to late hour - almost 8:30 p.m. but I had chance to set inside and overview it. Hm-m, for 4 people for long drive - looks good, for in city driving + kids activities - no problem, but for some driving out such as camping, etc. I'm really not sure if it can be loaded with needed equipment. Although the interior - dark and I was told by sales person that only that combination available and nothing else, which surprised me pretty much.
If you are looking for something to camp with, then why not a cute-ute/soft-roader. The X-Trail is segment leading, and was once again awarded small SUV of the year by WhatCar? in the UK. Is a van really what you need?

jww

[landahoy]

Was there any reason you aren't looking at the Mazda MPV instead of the Mazda5, bigger, more powerful but still the most sporty of the group. I have no idea about it really, although I know its probably due for a replacement soon, but it seems like a good option unless there are some serious shortcomings, especially since it is smaller them most minivans but larger then the 5.

[valrub]

Yes, the X-trail looks good, but for family long driving (kids + equipment's), probably it is not really good choice. We have now lumina, and I can tell that 5-7 hours drive with everything in left no too much room inside, so probably option with the minivan where the third row good be taken out - is best solution.

Speaking about Mazda MPV - yes it is in out list, but we haven't chance yet to take it for the test drive. Now I'm also start looking for fuel consumption, with the recent gas price stick.....

[jww]

Yes, the X-trail looks good, but for family long driving (kids + equipment's), probably it is not really good choice. We have now lumina, and I can tell that 5-7 hours drive with everything in left no too much room inside, so probably option with the minivan where the third row good be taken out - is best solution.
I am not sure that I follow the excess room comment properly. Are you saying that there isn't enough space in the X-Trail or too much space? If you think an X-Trail gives you too much room then surely a mini-van with the 3rd row removed leaves even that much more extra space. There are plenty of positives on the X-Trail - one of which is the quality of the drive as it really is a decent daily driver and is quite comfortable over long drives. Don't forget, you can recline the seat backs on the rear seat, and there is as much leg room in the reat seat as there is on an Altima - I can cross my legs in the back at 6' easily. The 2.5 engine is an excellent product, runs well, likes to rev, has plenty of power, and has a timing chain which is a plus as well - especially if you are looking to keep the car for any length of time. The X-Trail LE was on my list, but my wife couldn't get around the idea of driving a truck-like vehicle - couldn't even get her into a test drive unfortunately.

Plus - if you go with the SE, you can get a cargo cover (I think that's still on the standard features list), cargo nets, and the cargo area has plenty of tie down locations. It just seems to me that if I was carrying gear, I would rather have a soft-roader than a mini-van that's all.


Speaking about Mazda MPV - yes it is in out list, but we haven't chance yet to take it for the test drive. Now I'm also start looking for fuel consumption, with the recent gas price stick.....
The MPV is much smaller than the rest of the offerings in the mini-van segment.

[valrub]

...yes, my wife cannot think about X-trail as full family transportation vechile, especially for long distance driving.


...yes, the MPV is smaller and his fuel consumption is biggest almost among alll minivans beside Kia's Sedona

[valrub]

SOrry :cry: It looks that i did something wrong witj quote

[valrub]

OK, we had chance to get to a test drive Mazda MPV, Toyota Sienna, Dodge Caravan again, Pontiac Montana SV6 Ext.

Well Mazda MPV- really impressed!! The disadvantages are the third sitting row cannot be split, fuel consumption is big, and the price since the ABS, AC - at extra cost and finally it comparable to basic Sienna.
Toyota Sienna - best :!: among minivans that I tested until now (we just cannot afford price).
Dodge Caravan - I don't why but we wasn't comfortable with this car and we almost dropped from our list.
The Pontiac Montana SV6 - looks little bit better than Uplander. So after some time of different scenarios we started thinking about leasing option -maybe to get Pontiac Montana SV6 (we are not sure RWB or EWB) on a 4 yr. term leas, since there are 3 yr. full warranty.

So speaking about the leas - for what should I look specifically, is it any good Canadian resource available? :?:

Thank you in advance

[stodge]

If it's brand new, visit http://www.cybercars.ca to get the invoice price, to help you negotiate a better price. (I'm not affiliated with them - I got some quotes from them for Fusions and Sonata).