How Far does a used car salesman go?

[Huggyd]

Kinda of a stupid question, and then only reason this came up was because one of my friends is looking into buying a house and we were talking about full disclosure. So even thro all / most of the information is available online about the history of a used vehicle is there any such thing about having full disclosure when talking to a car salesman, or is it more like if you don’t ask the question he doesn’t have to tell you anything??

[stodge]

How far? About as far as you can throw him. :lol:

But seriously folks, I'd trust a used car salesman about as far as I could throw his cars, not him. Which, incidentally, is not very far at all.

[The General]

They do have a reputation...

Although certain stories may be exaggerated, the facts remain that it is based in some reality.

[apl]

they are only surpassed in their ability to lie by real estate agents and lawyers.............always get cars checked by a mechanic!!!!!!!!!period!

[Pritch]

AMEN to that. And go to YOUR mechanic not theirs. Dont EVER EVER buy a used car without doing this.

Because of my job, i go with a lot of my friends used-car shopping and see the total BS the used car guys often dish out, as well as the crap they try and sell. It's infuriating.

[LeafFan]

Could any of you perhape give an example of one of these many plethora of terrible lies being told to people on car lots?

I'd be interested to know.

[apl16]

i've actually seen cars that have had their odometers turned back and a gm v8 with sawdust stuffed in it to quiet the valve clatter..........and a few splash paint jobs that would make Maaco proud............a few ontario cars make it out here and get splashed and sold...........lots of advertising lies

[LeafFan]

I can almost assure you that the cars with the odometer rolled back or using the sawdust were bought at a typical fly by night guy with a trailer or some such thing on the street corner. No reputable lot (ie at a GM/Ford/Mazda/Hyundai/Toyota) would do those things knowingly. The loss of reputation alone would not be worth the risk.

And please don't give me the old advertising lie complaint. It's a proven fact that the auto sales industry doesn't lie any more then they do at the Brick, or Future Shop or whatever retailer you want to pick. NOBODY advertises ALL the truth. NOBODY.

Weak

[Crash]

I spent quite a few years in car sales, both new, used, and I even managed 3 public auto auctions.

Whilst I agree that anyone looking at buying a vehicle should have it checked out by an independent mechanic, and that there are indeed some dealers out there who tell "pork pies" (lies)!, it is a little unfair to tar them all with the same brush.

I know of one used car dealer in T.O. who was on the ethics board of the Ontario Dealers Association who was amazing in his dealings. I had one of his customers who come into my shop shortly after purchasing a used Landrover from him. When I told him that he should take it back to the selling dealer to get it fixed, the customers response was that "he had fixed so many little things on the vehicle that he felt sorry for the dealer". He said "I don't mind paying for it to be done, the truck was well priced and I feel embarised taking it back again".

Since then, I have run into several people who have purchased cars from this dealer and have never heard anything but good remarks.

The funny thing is that he only owns a little small shop. It is nothing grand to look at, but he has a good reputation for honesty.

The way things are going in the car business nowadays, you can't always trust the external look of the dealership. Often, (esp in new car sales), the dealership is owned by a large group of investors, who own several franchises. The days of buying from Ma and Pa outfits are disapearing fast, and why...because these big guys make more money and can afford to push the little guys out!

How do these big guys make so much money when Ma and Pa can't???

Think about it? I can tell you, it's not all down to great management!

Ever seen a sign at a dealership for an incredable cheap oil and filter change? I know that they can't make money doing it for that price, I was in the business myself and I paid the same price for my oil as they do.

Are they so awesome at management that they have arranged a special deal with the oil companies?

No, what they do is...order their mechanics "to find something wrong with the vehicle"!!!

I know this because I've had several dealer mechanics tell me themselves. They get upset about it because they are also pulled into the scam. Everytime I've heard this, it has concerned a large flash looking new car dealership, I guess that's how you make real money in the car business, then you can buy out Ma and PA because they can't "or won't" compete.

So don't knock all the little guys. My advise...check out every dealer the same way, take a mechanic along if you want to buy a car, and don't get dazzled by the bright lights of a shinny dealership, all that glint and gloss has to get paid for somehow!

[red67stang]

You always hear about customers with horror stories about their dealings with a car dealer but you rarely hear about a dealers horror stories about bad customers. As a dealer for over 20 years I think I've seen it all and then a customer( I'll use the word customer to be polite) surprises me and make's me scratch my head. The retail public thinks nothing about lying to dealers to get what they want. We're talking about genereally honest people who turn into the biggest scam artists the minute they are dealing with a car dealer. People think it's OK to screw the dealer but if they think that they have been slighted in any way, The BIG BAD DEALER is the bad guy. If you want to be treated with respect and honestly try doing it yourself.If you don't get the kind of treatment you think you deserve go somewhere else.

[The General]

If you don't get the kind of treatment you think you deserve go somewhere else.

And that is exactly what people should do. There are tons of dealers out there and if the one you are dealing with is not up to your standards, then go somewhere else.

Consumers are the clients. They have the money and they expect to be well treated. An average person buys or leases a new car every 5 to 7 years. An average dealership sells 8 to 10 cars a week. A consumer however bright, is not used to rolling with the fast-paced punches and punch lines from a salesperson.

If the dealer wants the business, they will answer all of your questions and take the time to serve the consumer, even if the consumer has no intention in buying and is browsing or even lying. That's the cost of doing business...

[Bop]

In Ontario, all salespeople are responsible to OMVIC (Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council). We have to offer any material fact to the customer prior to purchase. In other words, any piece of information that may sway a customer to NOT purchase a vehicle must be disclosed ie: history, former uses, accidents, etc. If something is not disclosed, the dealer is responsible.

[The General]

In Ontario, all salespeople are responsible to OMVIC (Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council)...

You bring up some interesting stuff Bop. I myself have seen, heard and read quite a bit about the OMVIC and their near-complete lack of presence and ability to enforce and control misleading ads and many other crooked dealer activities.

Even though OMVIC sounds good on paper, their overall effect on the Ontario auto industry barely registers on any scale.

Are telling us that a consumer can "safely" go to a dealer in Toronto for example?

[Bop]

In Ontario, all salespeople are responsible to OMVIC (Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council)...
Are telling us that a consumer can "safely" go to a dealer in Toronto for example?

I am going to assume you are leading into the CTV W-Five broadcast? If so, it has to be put in perspective. I will not defend any dealer or salesperson that deliberatly misleads a customer. With that said, there are 8700 registered dealers in Ontario alone. W-Five selected 19 dealerships with questionable advertising and of those dealers they came up with a 73% failure rate. It's not exactly a fair representation of the retail auto industry in Ontario. Agreed?

Also, as a dealer that believes in ethical treatment of our customers, we too are annoyed by certain dealers that mislead customers.

[The General]

I am referring in most part to the W-Five investigations. Every dealer and association related to dealers always mentions the fact that the sampling is too small. Over the last 4 or 5 years, over 300 or so dealers across Canada have been "tested" and the overall results have been quite poor.

Some of those dealers have been re-tested 2 and 3 times and consistently fail. If there was a noticeable change in trends year after year, I would agree that it is an unfair sampling. Problem is that there is no change in the trends.

I do realise that there are good dealers out there but they are few and far between.

[Bop]

The problem is how they select who they will test. They aren't random at all. They select from dealers that they feel will fail. That is where the issue with ethical dealers is.

[The General]

The problem is how they select who they will test. They aren't random at all. They select from dealers that they feel will fail. That is where the issue with ethical dealers is.

Picking up a local newspaper, looking through the ads, selecting one and making an appointment or showing up like any other consumer is targeting the "bad" dealers to you?

Sounds to me like the excuses are running thin... and how could they select from dealers that they feel will fail if they have not tested them previously. In an effort to increase sampling, to please OMVIC and other critics, they try and test as many new dealers as they can.

Those that failed miserably one year can sometimes be re-tested to see if their ways have changed. W-Five always publishes the fact that they are "re-testing" when such is the case.

[Bop]

The excuses aren't running thin whatsoever. Fact is, if I want to show dealers failing, especially for the sake of a t.v. show, I can. Not much point in this debating anymore as I can see we aren't going to resolve or agree.

[The General]

All right then...