RE: Hybrid Technology

[jimsum]

I don't think it is fair to judge current hybrids based on economy. However, there is a chance that these things will be produced in the hundreds of thousands, or that gas prices will go up drastically, and they will prove to be a good value. I don't know why financial considerations should enter into it, anyway. Just about every conventional car has an optional engine that costs more money and yet gets worse mileage. Why do auto reviewers always seem to prefer these optional engines when it makes absolutely no financial sense to pay more for an engine that is going to cost you more in gas?

Of course, auto reviewers prefer the optional engines because they like them better and the financial considerations are not important. Why is it wrong to value low emissions and high fuel economy over financial considerations? If people can brag about horsepower, 0-100 km times and top speeds, what's wrong with bragging about fuel economy? At least fuel economy saves me some money; I doubt I’ll ever get a chance to go 200 km/h.

Hybrids are exotic vehicles, and there is a risk that these things could turn out to be lemons. But, when was the last time Toyota or Honda introduced a new model that turned out to be a lemon? I'd think the risks are the same as buying a low-volume model like the Honda S2000 or the Acura NSX. I think these companies have a good track record. The Prius has been offered in Japan since 1997; it has a pretty good track record.

It is also quite possible that these cars will become very popular, in which case they won't be exotic. Were people who bought the first New Beetles crazy to do so?

Finally, about trade-in value, I just sold a 1992 Honda Civic SI that I bought new and drove for 264,000 km. I expect that I'll drive my new 2004 Prius into the ground as well; so trade-in doesn't matter (I ordered in mid-September, so I don’t know if I was influenced by the hype :-). If trade-in is important, the value is going to be totally dependent on how reliable these things are. If first generation hybrids are going to be worthless compared to new hybrids; what will gas-guzzling conventional cars be worth?

[webster7]

Jimsum,
I agree with all that you say. I would be glad to pay a premium for the ability for my car to get 50MPG, be able to be recharged in my garage,
retain the use of the fold down rear seat, and be able to make short trips on electric power alone. None of these features are contained in the present Honda Civic Hybrid. My priorities are quality, usefulness, comfort and economy. Unfortunately, many people buy a car for the prestige value, letting economy, efficiency and ergonomics go by the board. I am looking forward to the Nissan Altima Hybrid to see if it features the items I want.
Ken Hoffman (webster7)

[The General]

Jimsum, you make excellent points. Time will tell how these cars will behave in our markets and our climates.

Your wish will come true webster7. Along with the Altima, there is the Accord and, possibly to a lesser extent, the Escape Hybrid.

Auto journalists are generally enthusiasts so they like to power but also, what tends to sell at the moment, maybe more than fuel economy, are the powerfull fast expensive cars: Mustang, F430, SLR, DB9, etc... I can't imagime a Scion xA ever being on the cover of Road & Track...

There certainly is a group of people who is more interested in economy and reliabilty and there are some sources for this type of information.

Times are changing?! :idea:

[The General]

"Unfortunately, the Honda Accord Hybrid cannot be driven on
battery power alone and the fold down rear seat is gone."
webster7

Very true but it could be a compromise without much compromise. Most fully electric vehicle are not "road worthy" and not very convenient.

I'm sure that in time reason will take its rightful place and we will make do without SUVs and cars that can't do at least 25 mpg on average.

In the meantime, these hybrids are the way to go or, diesel vehicles may also hold an answer.

[snoproblem]

The more people buy good-quality hybrids, the more of them carmakers will manufacture and make available. Witness the pattern emerging with the Prius. Other models can and will follow. The resulting competition will eventually lower the average unit price, resulting in more sales etc.

I'm sure this trend has not escaped the attention of the oil companies.

Once I'm in the market, I'll be heading to the nearest Toyota dealership to purchase a Prius. Wait times notwithstanding! :roll:

There's a couple of postings I should have placed in this forum area! Live and learn...

[The General]

Originally Posted by snoproblem

There's a couple of postings I should have placed in this forum area! Live and learn...

Don't worry about it.

You are right, demand drives the market.

I remember I paid 650$ for my first VCR! Now a better, faster and more reliable one can be had for 100$.

Same thing will happen to the Hybrids.

[snoproblem]

I just read the new article in the 'green wheels' section (A Strange and Different World, part one). Good one!

I've often wondered to what extent car marketing influences our choices. It goes a long way towards explaing the number of urban motorists who buy, for instance, massive SUV's that will likely never be employed toward their intended purpose...whatever that is.

[snoproblem]

I don't know about marketing influence, but I've been looking at the new Dodge Magnum and I found myself wanting one badly. Maybe I need some of that de-programming, like in the article....naah. Just a male thing!

The one with the Hemi can tow 3800 pounds! 8)

[The General]

I think it's just the impression that bigger is better, more and safer. On a couple of these points, it is completely false.

But I understand. I'd love to have a Yukon XL Denali just for the hell of it.

[woohoo!]

Originally Posted by The General

I remember I paid 650$ for my first VCR!

Boy, did you ever get scr***d! (just picking on ya)